Leo is an absolute legend. I skyped him and we talked for about two hours. He was a lovely, genuine guy and wasn't pretentious at all. He was inspiring to talk to and he even gave me his contact information in order to stay in touch. Really encouraging.
- Started in Moving Image Arts in school
- Surround yourself who will be honest with you – After premier of Braxton Mr Gallagher came up to him and said “Good job. Should have been 20 minutes shorter.” And that was it!
- Misses early days of filmmaking where “you could just come up with some mad idea and you wouldn’t have to worry about funding or anything. You could just go and do it.” We made westerns and stuff. It’s a good trade off because people take you more seriously, but you’re a lot more accountable.
- Planned to go to Dunleory, but by the time he left St Malachy’s met producer called Margaret, who has become one of the most sought after indie producers in NI. Instead of going to film-school, he made Braxton.
- Always be very “ill-disciplined with runtimes”. Even his student films were far too long.
- Used to outline obsessively everything before he starts to write a script. Now he just writes a list of scenes and he’s pretty all over the place. “I don’t think there’s any one way to do it.” When he made The Invention, he had to structure it like a feature: He planned it out like a 120 page feature with 3 acts and then devided everything by 10.
-Writes with Final Draft. Does a thing where if he gets bored of writing a film, he’ll move over and write a scene in another program, so that it looks different. Apparently it’s a sociopathic way of writing movies!
- Working on a web-series. Written the wrong show twice. Was supposed to be a comedy, but got really dark, so the started again. The second time was too ambitious, so they’ve started again. Planned for each episode to be 5-10 minutes. Ended up writing 23 pages. Started out as ‘it’s just where the writing is taking us’, but after a few days realised “this is unforgivable bad!” Didn’t appreciate web-series being so difficult.
- “I’ve always thought that shorts are really hard to make. I think short films are an art-form themselves and I never knew how to do them. I was never good at finding a short story. All my movies ended up being far too long and then when I made the feature, I thought “Aw, I’m way happier doing this.” “I don’t know if I have the talent to condense everything I have to say into 10 or 15 minutes.”
- Never directed anything he hasn’t written. Almost directed film called The Moragon, but didn’t happen. Was like The Thing but in Elizabethan Ireland. Worked on it for a year. Good script. Close to actually shooting, but it fell through. Script always has long process, but directing is much more free. Disappointing that film didn’t go ahead, because would have been fun to focus on set-pieces since he was confident the story was already working. When he writes and directs, he is always panicked about it working as a story as well as directing. But when just directing he can accept the story works and move on.
- Has friends who have to write what they direct. Cousin Aiden is very much like that, but he has a very specific voice that fits into his own style. Leo always likes a good story, whether he’s written it or not. But he gets that when you direct and not write, “it doesn’t always feel like yours.” Always needs to be working on something. “If I’m not working on something I’ll go nuts.” If you don’t have a connection to something you’re being asked to direct is really hard. “Finding a way into something is great, but sometimes you do just have to show up and dictate the angles, direct the actors and your hearts not in it. And that’s really tough for me.” You also have to change your style. If you’ve a very particular style of making movies, then you have to change for that script. Everyone wants to be wanted for their vision, but that only happens for the very biggest directors. “Some people are born directors.” When Billy Wilder was writing a screenplay, he was obsessive. He made sure the script was as good as possible before he gets on set and then he plays around with it with actors. PTA would write a script and have essentially made the movie on paper.
-You always run the risk of becoming an anonymous director, if you take on lots of different scripts and have lots of aesthetic interests. If you do different movies that way, you might be creatively fulfilled, but “when the time comes to watch all of the movies you’ve directed, it might look like 17 different people directed each one.” It all depends on how precious you want to be about your filmography.
- Has ended up producing loads of films, despite never expecting that to happen. But he ended up enjoying it and picking it up quickly from the people around him. People would approach him with scripts to produce. The more he’s done this the more he’s worked with funding bodies etc. Everybody needs to figure out their own path. It’s not something you can figure out in a room; you just need to do it. Loves directing, but would be happy writing or producing if it was a project he cared about.
- When Braxton came out, all of the written review were nice and the horror fan review were awful. Some horror fans hated that movie. “I remember sitting at my kitchen table and saying to my mum, “Mum, there’s a guy on IMDb who thinks that we made the worst movie he’s ever seen! Like think of all the movies on the planet. He thinks that our movie, which we worked our asses off for, is he worst thing he’s ever seen.” His mum always just found that funny and never understood why Leo got up tight about it. That changed his philosophy. Braxton took two years to make. He loves it. But “you’ll spend two years of your life on something and people will shit on it no matter what, so why not just do your best work and let people think what they think. By the time they’re giving their opinions, you’ve moved on to the next film.”
- They idea behind Braxton was that if they were able to do it, someone else would come along and do it after them. And then enough people will do it and people will do it better than they did, that people with money will notice. To kickstart an indie scene in NI. I would never call someone’s film dreadful because I know how hard it is to make a film. But when people hear you’re young and they hear your budget, they’re going in against you. No movie should ever be judged by that, but they’re going to be. NI has such a small community that you can’t actually have an underground film scene, because someone who was in your no-budget movie, might be on The Fall the next week. So it’s this weird mainstream and independent scene existing alongside each other. We made Braxton six years ago and there are so many amazing people back home who will get excited about a project if they believe you are. I said to Margaret, what if we apply the workflow we have to shorts and try to make a feature. “We can treat it like a really long short; like an 8 week short” We’ve no money, but we’re not gonna lead anyone on. If you’re not doing anything, why not work this movie into your schedule? There were 41 speaking parts in the film and they didn’t think they would be able to get actors. Because it was an ensemble cast, they only needed people for a few days. Filmed from 7th July- 30th August- not consecutive. Never shot weekends. Getting actors was actually one of the easier parts of the film. Used Studio Ni. Now a facebook group, but used to be a email group. Getting crew was the difficult part, because they had to commit to every single day. So many people on the crew went on to huge things. He worked with them at the very start of their career. It was like a summer camp vibe. They kept things small and fun. It was small and they kept it like a family vibe. They just got out there and did it.
- “It happens with a lot of creative people. When you’re trying to create things out of thin air. When you’re trying to tell stories, you do second guess yourself all of the time.” When he thinks too much, he never gets things done. He just needs to throw caution to the wind and write. Braxton was two years of “Oh, why don’t we put more gore in there. And they did so many reshoots on the film. Leo would naturally stress over the tiniest of details.
- He doesn’t necessarily like producing. “It’s a lot of the responsibility, and not enough of the fulfilment… The trade-off is that you do get to be the boss”.
- Apparently you are meant to just do all the creative stuff and then edit, “But I haven’t found that balance yet”. We dream of just being able to write and everything to be perfect, but it never happens.
- Was 17 when he made Cody, a western. It really was a bit of a “hodge-podge” of finding locations in Belfast that could have been part of the old west. The costumes where all down to the actors. It was very much about everyone contributing their own special skills to it. “I really was the idiot who didn’t know what h was doing and took all of the credit!” It was very much just improvising and they hit loads of issues along the way, like losing locations and having to rewrite scenes. “When I finished that movie, I thought, aw, it’s awful. It’s nothing I wanted it to be. I was so bummed out.” I had planned to make a 50s gangster movie next with cars and fedoras. But Mr Galagher cam up to me and said, just don’t. He saw what he’d put himself through for Cody. So he made Echoes of Anna instead. But it still annoys him that he never made that gangster movie all of those years ago. When he was scouting the city hall for locations for it, he thought they would have to paint out the union jack on city hall, because it’s obviously meant to take place in America. And the guy was like “Oh I actually think that’s gonna come down for a while.” And before I knew it, the flag riots had started.
- Making Echoes of Anna was “horrendous. Making that movie was horrendous.” This is so irresponsible. I was gonna make the gangster movie, but I had to go back to the drawing board and wrote essentially the opposite of a gangster movie. The movie and to be be handed in on the 29th April and we only started filming it on the 8th of April. But it was fine; we had it all prepped. We had cast. They and shot 4 of their 5 day shoot and on the evening of the 4th day, their lead actress got really sick and they didn’t hear from her at all. They had to cancel day 5 and postpone it for a few days. She ended up being really very very sick. They waited a week for her to get better, but she didn’t. So the recast and reshot. They didn’t have time to get everyone back. They shot the new actress on her own and she isn’t actually ever in the same shot as anyone else. The film was due the 29th and was finished the 28th. He hasn’t seen it since. Every time he makes a movie and things are getting rough, he thinks to himself, “At least it’s not Echoes of Anna”. The thing that was freaking him out.
- Started out acting as a child on TV show called Bel’s Boys. He always really wanted to act, but as he grew up realised he leaned towards directing.
- When he arrives on set, he rehearses the scene as it’s been written, but then throws it out. “Here’s where this scene begins and here is where it ends. Between that, let's see if we can do anything crazy with it.” He lights movies for how he likes to work with actors. If he can, he does 360 degree lighting. Instead of having very precise set up and everyone breaks while you do the next set up. He would rather light the location. The whole idea of this is just to let the actors feel more like they’re actually living in that space, because the less artifice the less they’re inhibited. “My ideal scenario is 360 degree lighting and Steadicam for every shot.” It gives the scenes a real energy. He loves shooting quickly. The amount of stuff you can shoot in a ten hour day is mind blowing if you just keep the energy up. As a producer he’s overseen days where in a full day, they’ve done maybe seven set-ups. “The last twenty minutes of Braxton was shot in maybe two days”.
- “Some actors are great at making lines I haven’t written very well sound really good. And sometimes those actors don’t appreciate it when I’m wanting to improv.” Not every scene needs improv, but there are scenes where you can basically say “Go nuts. Have fun. Just say this; this’ll be funny.”
- “I don’t like movies that are just dramas. I don’t like movies that are just grim. I can appreciate them and I enjoy watching them. But I could never make one.” I think life is a drama with moments of comedy. The Producers does just as much to convey how awful the Nazis were as Schindler’s List. Look at a film like Se7en. It’s relentlessly grim, but there’s actually some diabolical humour in it; that’s why the darkness is bearable. People think grim translates to meaningful and that’s just not necessarily true. “It’s pretty easy to make a dark movie. We can all go into our imaginations and find the darkest thing possible.”
- Likes to rehearse with actors ahead of shoot. Brings them in separately. Rehearse the scene as written and then record some improvs on the scene. Get them to imagine the scene. “We need to get from point A to point C in this scene. Now do that without using all of the dialogue I’ve written.” We’ll listen to those improvs and anything I like, I’ll write it up, transcribe it and write it into the scene. It’s hard because sometimes you only ever get an actor for like one day for a costume fitting. Sometimes at the end of a day’s shoot I’ll rehearse. Like, crew’s packing up, we’re going to be home soon. Let’s just play for a bit. It might seem counterintuitive rehearsing sometimes, because you’re like, ‘we’re supposed to be filming’, but it can actually speed the process up throughout the rest of the day. A lot of directors like to block and find it on the day. But I can’t do that. I like to plan as much of that as possible in advance. On the day it means you can focus on performance. A lot of the time, I’ve a firm idea of the blocking right from the scripting stage. On Braxton, I didn’t. On Braxton I was very much working my blocking out with the actors. But for The Invention, I was much more meticulous in the scripting stage and knew what I wanted my blocking to be early on. I would love to spend more time with actors than I get, but most of the time you just don’t have time; you just need to work so fast. There’s no better feeling than when your actors just elevate what was a dull scene on paper
- Budget for Braxton was less than 5 grand. The movie was an exercise in people’s goodwill. People found out and suddenly people would offer things up. “Anytime you’re beginning to feel down about humanity, make an independent movie.” Neighbours would just come over and let us use their garages to power our lights to get shots that we wanted. The only reason that movie exists is because of the goodwill of people. By the time they started shooting, they didn’t know for sure what locations they’d be able to use for later in the shoot. They made a huge production bible that broke down the script into every actor and prop etc needed for every single scene. It was all just a massive database. If you want the shoot to be smooth, you should prep as much as you can. Don’t start shooting until you’ve properly prepped for it. Braxton is pretty reserved stylistically; as in it’s largely just over the shoulder, over the shoulder, wide. And that’s because it was perhaps more of an exercise in seeing if it was practically possible for them to pull it off. If he was doing it now, he would have a bit more flare. He tries to direct the movie as much as possible on the page. Make the movie on paper first. “That way if you have to go to set and you’re having the worst day possible, you’ve still worked the movie out in your head, and you can still shoot it, even if you aren’t feeling inspired. But it’s hard not to feel inspired if you surround yourself with great people.”
- NI Screen are very supportive of what you want to do. “I’ve never gotten a note that wasn’t like ‘feel free to disregard this’”. Very supportive. They usually do give pretty good advice though. “I have never had a note that’s arbitrary or daft. The notes are always specific.” I used to give notes that were very vague, but now I realise that’s not really helpful. Be specific in giving notes.
- It’s difficult pitching. Sometimes you do put movie packages together that you really believe in, but they just don’t go for them. And it’s rough. They don’t owe anyone anything. Don’t take things personally. They’re a great resource, but if they don’t want to fund your film, don’t worry. Work out how else you can get it made.
- “I love pitching. It’s bazaar, but I love pitching.” Open with a comparison to other movies. Some people don’t like it, but for most people it really does work. Treat it like you’re not trying to sell it. Act more like, here is my idea and what do you think? Don’t overthink it. People aren’t stupid; they know when you’re trying to sell them anything. Be self aware about it. Be honest. I hate pretentious people, so I always try to be completely honest. The people at the highest levels are remarkably unpretentious. There is a reason American movies are the most popular, because Americans tend to be so unpretentious when it comes to movies.
- Everyone wants a career of entirely masterpieces. But it’s never gonna happen. Your favourite filmmakers are Scorsese. Spielberg, Coppola, but they didn’t hit the scene with some amazing movie that everybody fell in love with. Mean Streets was like Scorsese’s third movie. I want to make the best film I can, but don’t get too precious.
- Unfortunately filmmaking doesn’t always pay the bills. I do do a lot of editing work on the side. And a lot of people have been very good to me giving me directing work on ad campaigns for like theatres and things. It’s directing, but it’s not making movies. With all of the stuff I do, I do ok. I’m able to make enough to support myself, but not entirely in filmmaking. By the age of 25 I’m really happy with the movies I’ve made and the people I’ve been able to work with, and I hope someday I’ll be able to support myself, but not yet. If you’re multi-disciplined, you’ll get work. “Making a living as a director is tough. But it’s easier to make a living as a creative who can apply their skills to all kinds of different projects.” “It might not be the most creatively rewarding work, but it’s at least creative work. Like I’ve cut promos for things that I would never watch, but it beats working in a shop.” A friend of mine said that he always grew up reading about how people in LA would always have their one screenplay. And then they’d make their indie film and it would take them places. But now, it’s more like ‘where’s your short? Where’s your web series? What have you got?’ If you just make stuff, then it speaks for itself
- “Finish that script!”
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